We now have €520 which is over our target for the 'Support Sully' cause. Thanks to all that donated and good luck to those that are getting shaved.

Poll: Would you keep the garda reserve in its current form?
Yes
No never
Yes but not in its current state
[Show Results]
Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
Post Reply 
Garda Reserve- Value for money?
05-07-2010, 11:15 PM
Post: #1
Garda Reserve- Value for money?
So the reserves are nearly 4 years old,there are now 562 attested reserve gardai and an additional 101 student reserves in training. So my question is this- at a cost of about €3 million annually, does the Garda Reserve offer value for money? would the money be better spent on other resources? And are they useful in any way,would you keep them?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
06-07-2010, 08:45 AM
Post: #2
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
They need to be able to do more, our lads are sound and get stuck in most are waiting on a call from templemore about fulltime but i see the frustration on their face at how little they can actually do

This is a court of Law young man! Not, a court of Justice.


Disclaimer: The above is the authors personal opinion and does not represent the values, teachings, policy or opinion of my employer do not take it as anything other than the authors opinion.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
06-07-2010, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2010 12:01 PM by sixoneseven.)
Post: #3
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
i think of all the reserves in our station maybe 3 or 4 are reliable, one of them i'd give a badge to tomorrow but of the rest, one of them for definite is just a uniform chaser who i wouldn't trust with a cup of tea, and a good few of the others are just too old to be doing the job- not being ageist but in a busy city centre station performing beat work at night time when there would be heavy public order and assistance calls every week you don't want to get into a spot of bother with one of these dudes as your only immediate backup... like the poll says i reckon they would have value for money but not in their current format... station duties and events definitely but Temple Bar at 2am on a Saturday night? prob not.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
06-07-2010, 05:53 PM
Post: #4
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
i voted to keep them but not in current form, it seems from reading different forums that they seem to be unable to do much, perhaps they should be community police, providing a visible presence in the local areas, or is that what they were intended for?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
06-07-2010, 10:15 PM
Post: #5
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
The reserve should either be scrapped or transformed into a proper support unit. If they were given more powers and the ability to prosecute in court. I believe that if you had give them the ability to prosecute for minor offences i.e. public order, simple theft, rta everyday minor offences then I believe those reserves that are useless won't be long about hitting the road. I do think there is a lot of potential in the reserve but it needs a lot of work.

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2010 01:08 PM by westcoastboy.)
Post: #6
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
[quote='silop10' pid='11018' dateline='1278454503']
As a reserve we can summons drivers for non-production of DL, insurance, we cost what €3m, whats that, half an hours interest on the money borrowed to pay towards Anglo's loan of €22 billion, the reserve are in every other country -Germany, US and britain, The PSNI has them as Police Officers -part time paying them £11 an hour, driving cars, etc..i am lucky, when i go in on a friday night, i am put out on the beat or do a match, i amn't put down in the radio room or sitting in the back of a car, i feel its value for money, but should be givin extra powers, after two or three years, ..however we are not a substitute for a properly trainied Guard...we don't have the knowledge.and you will get eejit garda reserves as you will get eejit full-timers , they are in every job or profession
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 02:39 PM
Post: #7
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
€3,000,000 per anum

Will get you 75 full time Gardai's wages . . .allowing about €40,000 per mule . . .junior I know but as per the lesser experience of Reservists to keep it somewhat similar.

That equates to 75 mules by 8hrs per day by 20 days per Roster by 13 Rosters per anum.

That's 156,000 man hours Policing.


So the 562 reservists ( the figure is now no where near as high with the no's that have left, but anyway ) would need to work 277 hours each per anum for it to be similar man hours policing per €.

Thats 5.3 hrs per week just to break even.


I cant see the advantage there im afraid and I have NO ISSUE with the reserves.

Where the reserves come into their own is when they are brought in for large events, where a mule on OT would cost the state ( or event organiser for non public ) a lot lot more than nothing.


My experience of them ( we have 4 in my station ) is that they are largely just uniforms . .like sorta scarecrows . . . . only 1 of the 3 is effective and has any return of work.

But like has been discussed before thats not the fault of individual reservists imo . . . .its the fault of the daft system management put in place for them day 1. They are discouraged from working in many cases as the Sgt has to carry the can when they go back to their real jobs.


If you look at the figures above ( if i'm correct ) then they are not good value for money at all compared to full time mules for day to day policing, as draw backs in productivity and experience, local knowledge, courses and experience negate any slight 2 and 1/2 hour advantage per week imo . . ( based upon reservists working 8 hrs every week )

but come into their own when uniforms and simple numbers are required at big events.

'He who gives up Liberty for Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security".
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 03:07 PM
Post: #8
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
Again i can only talk from my limited experience, a lot of young fella's who joined the reserve have got fed up with it, i know three, they see the amount of paperwork, hours etc..
i fee l the reserve might put the potential members off.

those numbers for the fulltimers you quote, dont take in to account pensions, which reserves dont get, and thats why amongst other reasons the govt would be hesitant about recruiting more full timers,
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 04:19 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2010 04:22 PM by Corcioch.)
Post: #9
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
(08-07-2010 03:07 PM)westcoastboy Wrote:  Again i can only talk from my limited experience, a lot of young fella's who joined the reserve have got fed up with it, i know three, they see the amount of paperwork, hours etc..
i fee l the reserve might put the potential members off.

those numbers for the fulltimers you quote, dont take in to account pensions, which reserves dont get, and thats why amongst other reasons the govt would be hesitant about recruiting more full timers,


With the obscene money we are now paying into our pensions they should cost the state alot less if money is invested properly.

Our so called pension levy was 7.5 % or some nonsense like that . . . . it was more like a 120% or 150% increase in the amount we pay every week into the flippin thing.


Anyhoo the figures above are only rough and basic and dont factor in many complicated issues . . . .but they do highlight a point . . . . . .and yes the numbers now in the reserves are far lower than the number I allowed so it works both ways as far as the figures go . . . .

'He who gives up Liberty for Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security".
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2010 04:46 PM by alwaysone.)
Post: #10
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
(08-07-2010 03:07 PM)westcoastboy Wrote:  Again i can only talk from my limited experience, a lot of young fella's who joined the reserve have got fed up with it, i know three, they see the amount of paperwork, hours etc..
i fee l the reserve might put the potential members off.

those numbers for the fulltimers you quote, dont take in to account pensions, which reserves dont get, and thats why amongst other reasons the govt would be hesitant about recruiting more full timers,

To be fair westcoastboy I am not sure how three lads would get fed up with paperwork as I cannot see how they are able to generate it given the very limited powers. With regard to hours and indeed this is probably relevant to how busy the individual stations are some skippers are cryin out for extra bodies and others just dont have enough regular members to pair off against a reservist.

the numbers of reserves seems to change depending who you listen to or what paper we read.

Regarding value against regular members. I am not sure that equation can even be made as I dont think from a realastic point of view that we can just divide the beans as easy as that.

The only way forward that I have taken from experienced members is to start letting reserve members take a little more responsability. Only then will it truly be known if the concept will work.

I except that there is something akin to reserves in several other countries but it has taken years to develop and the systems are certainly not flawless. I'm sure woodentop can add to that one.

The reserve issue has been debated by mules for 4 years now and the general opinions always come back to the same thing. Roughly half of reserve members either dont have enough interest to stick it out or enough common sence to be of any use in the first place.

And to be fair its the opinions of the mules on the ground who I would listen to not the cigs supers papers or politicans as its the mules who are the ones who have the best view of us.
voted option 319

Proudly Confounding everyone since 2006. [Image: eck13.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 06:32 PM
Post: #11
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
(08-07-2010 04:33 PM)alwaysone Wrote:  To be fair westcoastboy I am not sure how three lads would get fed up with paperwork as I cannot see how they are able to generate it given the very limited powers. With regard to hours and indeed this is probably relevant to how busy the individual stations are some skippers are cryin out for extra bodies and others just dont have enough regular members to pair off against a reservist.

the numbers of reserves seems to change depending who you listen to or what paper we read.

Regarding value against regular members. I am not sure that equation can even be made as I dont think from a realastic point of view that we can just divide the beans as easy as that.

The only way forward that I have taken from experienced members is to start letting reserve members take a little more responsability. Only then will it truly be known if the concept will work.

I except that there is something akin to reserves in several other countries but it has taken years to develop and the systems are certainly not flawless. I'm sure woodentop can add to that one.

The reserve issue has been debated by mules for 4 years now and the general opinions always come back to the same thing. Roughly half of reserve members either dont have enough interest to stick it out or enough common sence to be of any use in the first place.

And to be fair its the opinions of the mules on the ground who I would listen to not the cigs supers papers or politicans as its the mules who are the ones who have the best view of us.
voted option 319



i meant that the reserves SEE workdone by the fulltime members,and its up to the Commissioner to decide how this reserve concept goes.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-07-2010, 08:20 PM
Post: #12
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
oh ok I get ya . Yea fair point

Proudly Confounding everyone since 2006. [Image: eck13.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
01-09-2010, 09:45 AM
Post: #13
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
without dragging the whole thing back through the mill, and no point starting a new thread, thought it was worth posting that the original intake (mise included) just started their 5th year as reserve members.

2600 + hours and still enjoy it, despite the begrudgers 19

Proudly Confounding everyone since 2006. [Image: eck13.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
01-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Post: #14
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
Good on ya mate and fair play to the lot of you for sticking with it.

The Met's Special Constabulary are undergoing some changes at the minute following a bit of a pr disaster when 1800 wannabe recruits waiting for start dates as regular officers were binned due to budget cuts. The job then turned around and said that those who'd passed the PC recruit process could better their chances of being selected in future by doing two years as Specials but only if they increased the monthly committment from 16 hours to 25!!! Needless to say they didn't get very many takers considering some people had sold businesses, moved house etc with a view to starting their new job. I think most people told them to stick it. Piss poor management that showed people at an early stage how poorly the MPS treats its people. I doubt many of the 1800 will ever have anything to do with the Plod after that!

So its the same no matter where you are.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
01-09-2010, 10:01 AM
Post: #15
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
(01-09-2010 09:57 AM)Sierra Oscar Wrote:  Good on ya mate and fair play to the lot of you for sticking with it.

The Met's Special Constabulary are undergoing some changes at the minute following a bit of a pr disaster when 1800 wannabe recruits waiting for start dates as regular officers were binned due to budget cuts. The job then turned around and said that those who'd passed the PC recruit process could better their chances of being selected in future by doing two years as Specials but only if they increased the monthly committment from 16 hours to 25!!! Needless to say they didn't get very many takers considering some people had sold businesses, moved house etc with a view to starting their new job. I think most people told them to stick it. Piss poor management that showed people at an early stage how poorly the MPS treats its people. I doubt many of the 1800 will ever have anything to do with the Plod after that!

So its the same no matter where you are.

jesus, talk about carrot and stick, thats a kick in the guts for people as you say have moved house/family etc

Proudly Confounding everyone since 2006. [Image: eck13.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
07-10-2010, 11:53 PM
Post: #16
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
As a member of the Garda Reserve for over three years now I would be of the opinion that the Garda Reserve in it's present guise serves little or no purpose, and were it to be disbanded in the morning it would make little or no difference to policing in this country. I would love to see Reserves making a real difference, but unless we are given more responsibilities along with relevant fit for purpose powers, that will never happen.As a Reserve I am well used to been left sitting around the station, been stuck in the back of a car, or dumped up in the Radio room, when the main purpose of the Reserve was to have more members out on the beat. I know things move slowly within AGS, but surely after four years Garda Management can see that it is not working in it's present guise, so it is time to either scrap the Reserve or put it to the use that was intended. This should also include giving Reserves with two or more years service, relevant powers and responsibilities, as to be honest the Reserve is nothing more than a joke as it presently stands.

However one of our biggest issues is that we have no form of representation, so while I'm sure that Garda management are well aware of our concerns, nobody is pursuing these concerns on our behalf, with the result that nothing ever changes. Our only form of communication with Garda management is an annual Regional Appreciation night that is held for Reserves within the various regions, but every year it is the same old rubbish. We get told how great we are, how appreciated we are, and then when we look for more powers, responsibilities etc, we are told that our wishes will be passed on to the Commissioner. Surprisingly enough we never hear anything back from Garda Management, and while I understand that Garda Management have more pressing matters to deal with, it does show that the whole Garda Reserve concept is pretty low down on the list of priorities.

Everybody from TDs to Reserves, to Kathleen O'Toole, to full time members agree that the whole Reserve concept needs to be looked at, yet all we get is a deafening silence from Garda Management. Why I do not know, as I truly believe we could make a small difference if the correct powers & responsibilities were given to suitable reserves.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-10-2010, 08:56 AM
Post: #17
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
(07-10-2010 11:53 PM)gilly2308 Wrote:  As a member of the Garda Reserve for over three years now I would be of the opinion that the Garda Reserve in it's present guise serves little or no purpose, and were it to be disbanded in the morning it would make little or no difference to policing in this country. I would love to see Reserves making a real difference, but unless we are given more responsibilities along with relevant fit for purpose powers, that will never happen.As a Reserve I am well used to been left sitting around the station, been stuck in the back of a car, or dumped up in the Radio room, when the main purpose of the Reserve was to have more members out on the beat. I know things move slowly within AGS, but surely after four years Garda Management can see that it is not working in it's present guise, so it is time to either scrap the Reserve or put it to the use that was intended. This should also include giving Reserves with two or more years service, relevant powers and responsibilities, as to be honest the Reserve is nothing more than a joke as it presently stands.

However one of our biggest issues is that we have no form of representation, so while I'm sure that Garda management are well aware of our concerns, nobody is pursuing these concerns on our behalf, with the result that nothing ever changes. Our only form of communication with Garda management is an annual Regional Appreciation night that is held for Reserves within the various regions, but every year it is the same old rubbish. We get told how great we are, how appreciated we are, and then when we look for more powers, responsibilities etc, we are told that our wishes will be passed on to the Commissioner. Surprisingly enough we never hear anything back from Garda Management, and while I understand that Garda Management have more pressing matters to deal with, it does show that the whole Garda Reserve concept is pretty low down on the list of priorities.

Everybody from TDs to Reserves, to Kathleen O'Toole, to full time members agree that the whole Reserve concept needs to be looked at, yet all we get is a deafening silence from Garda Management. Why I do not know, as I truly believe we could make a small difference if the correct powers & responsibilities were given to suitable reserves.

What your saying makes perfect sense . . .in one way . .but some of it makes no sense.

For example, how are we going to make Reserves more active, give them more powers etc with the issue of Court.

Are reserve members going to get one day a week, or more depending on listings of court cases . . . one day a week off work to go to court to prosecute offences?? ( as an active garda in a busy dublin station a few years ago I often found myself in court 5 days a week )

How many reserve members can get that kind of time off work??

Because until reserve members have the time to go to court and compile investigation files etc then they really have no business having wider powers/ doing more "work" while on duty as reserves.

I admire people who give of their time to join the reserves and help in their communities. Although a cynic most of the time im not at all cynical about the reasons people are joining. Many members chalk it down to people being nosey etc . .

I dont believe that and often find myself standing up against such notions at work.

Many people forget that Policing is just the community protecting itself, we are members of the communities we come from and we work to protect them, we and the laws are desgined to work for the community. If some members of that same community are willing to give of their time to do this work for free then I respect that.

And I mean no disrespect when I say that I believe management see the reserves as scarecrows. Nothing else, bodies to fill yellow jackets and basically act like scarecrows do in fields, only out on the streets of our communities.

And while greater powers etc are a great idea I cant see how any of that will work when reserves members with full time jobs will need to put together investigation files and go to court to prosecute cases . . .where will that time come from, reserves members have to go to work every day.

'He who gives up Liberty for Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security".
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-10-2010, 09:06 AM
Post: #18
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
excellent 1st post..
exactly my own thoughts...
fourth year in reserve,and enjoyed 98% off my time in it..but its a major kick in the bollacks,re: garda management,and how slow issues are being handled...there is no commitment,from management,to press ahead with change...they are more interested in having high no`s off reserves,with f**k all responsibilities or powers...for show and too produce list`s too TD`s who ask about reserves.. one off my questions too management, mainly those who deal with reserves,wtf, are ye doing all day..??? no one from management has come back too us,with the list off issues and questions that were raised from those appreciation nights...
anyway, welcome aboard gilly...hope you enjoy this site as much as i do..T

Yabba Dabba Doo
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-10-2010, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2010 10:14 AM by Metman.)
Post: #19
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
Good post Gilly, I have given you some rep points for it. I agree with your points which make perfect sense.

As for Corcioch's point re court? Well if you look for obstacles you'll always find them. Reserves here have no problem attending court. They claim their money back as would any other witness for losing a day at work.

Applicants to the Special Constabulary here must tell their employers they are joining the Special Constabulary at the outset, and a part of that duty is court attendance. If the employer has issues with that then its thrashed out prior to joining. Simples.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
08-10-2010, 02:20 PM
Post: #20
RE: Garda Reserve- Value for money?
I firmly believe that only time will tell on the entire implementation of Reserves.

Lets face it, it has only been five years since the initial idea was drop kicked into the mix by Mc Doodle in the first place.

The working relationship between Gardai and Reserves is chalk and cheese compared to the beginning, and this can only be counted as positive. Leaving the politics and indeed the issue of powers etc out of the equation, at the end of the day if there are more uniforms on the street irrespective of shoulder numbers I dont see how it can be seen as negative.

There have been many many tours where I have felt I could have been more helpfull covering the counter, realising a full time member onto beats, and on the reverse side many many tours where you are in actual fact needed as an extra body because the unit is light due to leave / PO training / courses etc.

Some Skippers have it down to a tee with regard to deploying a Reserve where it benifits the shift, and others just want to bounce you out onto the street, sometimes taking a member off what they were dutied to just to partner me, and I find the first 15 minutes apologising to my full time colleuge for fucking up his/her night.

It will get better, and the difference is there to be seen comparing 2006 - now.

Proudly Confounding everyone since 2006. [Image: eck13.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply Return to top
Post Reply 


Forum Jump: